Genetic Modification

[Caramel]

What is Islam's view on genetic modification of animals. I know its forbidden when comes to humans but is it the same for animals? Or are there certain rules for modifying animals that a person should consider?

[müffen]

Why is genetic modification forbidden when it comes to Humans ?

[Lawla91]

I don't think it is :S we eat genetically modified chicken/fish all the time, but I dunno really. there are limits for everything maybe it depends on how you use this kind of science.

[Caramel]

Originally Posted by müffen

Why is genetic modification forbidden when it comes to Humans ?

Because you're changing god's creation when you do that.

Originally Posted by Lawla91

I don't think it is :S we eat genetically modified chicken/fish all the time, but I dunno really. there are limits for everything maybe it depends on how you use this kind of science.

Yeah I was thinking maybe it has to do with your intentions of using it. I really want to know about it since I've read a lot about cross-breeding animals and usually the produce infertile offsprings. Is it ok to have that?

[müffen]

Originally Posted by Caramel

Because you're changing god's creation when you do that.

A baby is born stupid, clueless and uneducated. He's god's creation, but we decide to educate him and instil thoughts and values.

How/why is this not changing god's creation in your opinion ?

[Caramel]

Originally Posted by müffen

A baby is born stupid, clueless and uneducated. He's god's creation, but we decide to educate him and instil thoughts and values.

How/why is this not changing god's creation in your opinion ?

Well here is the difference when comes to changing things "physically" or "mentally". If you consider teaching a baby as he/she grows up and educating him/her as changing gods creation since god created babies that way. Then at a time the kid will grow up and be able to make his/her own choices. Lets say for example a baby was raised by Christian parents; the kid will be raised in a Christian environment with Christian beliefs. However, when the kid grows up and becomes a mature person he/she will be able to make their own choices based on their interpretations and experiences hence they can themselves change their way of thinking. Its not changing gods creation in fact it might be a reason why we are created to see how we can use our "mental thoughts" to reach the right path. However when comes to physically changing god's creation here is where it is forbidden. For example, plastic surgeries, you are changing god's creation that way. Same with genetic modifications you are changing or interfering would be more appropriate with god's creation. I know that genetic modification could be allowed if its used in the right way (a pregnant woman can't have babies then they use the stem cell research to fix that) however the stem cell research itself could be forbidden when for example embryos are produced in larger amounts than needed and they end up destroying them when they are not needed.

[müffen]

I disagree with that. I don't think god put a metaphorical curtain between mentality and physicality, one being a playground we can explore and the other a sacred garden we shouldn't. I'm not sure I agree with genetic modification because sciences claims in this area are arrogantly 'creationist', and features that no human should possess.

That said. I don't think I accept your premise of there being a cosmetic border between mentality and physicality, and we shouldn't explore geneticis for that reason. I, for a reason I'm not entirely sure of, think that if god disapproved of this, it will be direct and clear in a Noah's ark manner.

I think it's a very interesting topic Caramel, but I haven't thought about entirely. I' will certainly come back to this thread.

[Caramel]

Originally Posted by müffen

I disagree with that. I don't think god put a metaphorical curtain between mentality and physicality, one being a playground we can explore and the other a sacred garden we shouldn't.

Well, I'll disagree with this because I find a difference between mentality and physicality. Thats because I think god gave us the right to think and explore as well as evaluate what we see and know however when comes to us humans as a physical thing then we aren't allowed to change the way god created us because god owns our bodies and we don't have the right to destroy/change it for example plastic surgeries or committing suicide (and thats clear in a Noah's ark manner). Thats why genetic modification could be forbidden for that reason.

I'm not sure I agree with genetic modification because sciences claims in this area are arrogantly 'creationist', and features that no human should possess.

This is interesting. Can you please elaborate your view?

[Sarz]

Well, off the top of my head ... genetically modifying an animal would mean inserting foreign genes into its DNA blueprint, thus alternating over coming generations and creating a hybrid. To me that sounds like changing the creation of Allah ... Allah has warned us in the Quran against the changing of His creation. Another thing is that, to me, this warning doesn't seem to be in the sense of forbidding something completely, but more like warning a person about the dire consequences that might result.

فَأَقِمْ وَجْهَكَ لِلدِّينِ حَنِيفًا ۚ فِطْرَتَ اللَّهِ الَّتِي فَطَرَ النَّاسَ عَلَيْهَا ۚ لَا تَبْدِيلَ لِخَلْقِ اللَّهِ ۚ ذَ*ٰلِكَ الدِّينُ الْقَيِّمُ وَلَـٰكِنَّ أَكْثَرَ النَّاسِ لَا يَعْلَمُونَ

So set thou thy face steadily and truly to the Faith: (establish) Allah.s handiwork according to the pattern on which He has made mankind: no change (let there be) in the work (wrought) by Allah. that is the standard Religion: but most among mankind understand not.

Surat Ar-Rum, Verse 30

Reading around online, there doesn't seem to be a clear cut answer to whether GM food are halal or haram. Instead considerations on the wider scale of things are taken into account, the impact that this phenomenon could have on the world. Humans can tamper and control a tiny slice of the balance of nature, but not the whole thing and this could end badly.

It is an incredible technology but I think we need to be super duper careful with it and use it in a good sense ...

Here's a response from Sheikh Yusuf Al-Qaradaw in regards to how islam views genetic engineering:

The Qur’an shows that Allah, Almighty, bestows many gifts on mankind enabling them to discover the mysterious nature around them and to recognize the laws that control the universe. Allah Almighty also submits the whole universe with its heavens, earth, sun and moon to mankind.

Allah Almighty says: (See ye not how Allah hath made serviceable unto you whatsoever is in the skies and whatsoever is in the earth and hath loaded you with His favors both without and within? Yet of mankind is he who disputeth concerning Allah, without knowledge or guidance or a Scripture giving light.) (Luqman 31: 20) *

He Almighty also says, (And in the earth are portents for those whose faith is sure. And (also) in yourselves. Can ye then not see??w (Adh-dhariat 51: 20-21) **

When man’s knowledge advances, it becomes compulsory for him to deepen his faith and moral virtues. One must not go alone, doing whatever one wants, ignoring religious morals or the welfare of people in general.

Allah Almighty says, (And when he turneth away (from thee) his effort in the land is to make mischief therein and to destroy the crops and the cattle; and Allah loveth not mischief.) (Al-Baqarah 2: 205) ***

We welcome the idea of genetic engineering. It is one of the greatest discoveries of our time and is shared by many countries. Whether it is considered more important than the discovery of penicillin or man landing on the moon, we hope it is used for the benefit of humanity and that its guidelines will be according to the views of qualified jurists.

There are many benefits we can derive from this, say, for instance, in treating genetic diseases by using the effective genes to prevent harm or disease. This is something commendable in Islam according to the legal rule "Prevention is better than cure"; the rule is taken from the hadith; “There should be neither harm nor reciprocating injury.”

Allah knows best.

* أَلَمْ تَرَوْا أَنَّ اللَّهَ سَخَّرَ لَكُم مَّا فِي السَّمَاوَاتِ وَمَا فِي الْأَرْضِ وَأَسْبَغَ عَلَيْكُمْ نِعَمَهُ ظَاهِرَةً وَبَاطِنَةً ۗ وَمِنَ النَّاسِ مَن يُجَادِلُ فِي اللَّهِ بِغَيْرِ عِلْمٍ وَلَا هُدًى وَلَا كِتَابٍ مُّنِيرٍ

** وَفِي الْأَرْضِ آيَاتٌ لِّلْمُوقِنِينَ, وَفِي أَنفُسِكُمْ ۚ أَفَلَا تُبْصِرُونَ

*** وَإِذَا تَوَلَّىٰ سَعَىٰ فِي الْأَرْضِ لِيُفْسِدَ فِيهَا وَيُهْلِكَ الْحَرْثَ وَالنَّسْلَ ۗ وَاللَّهُ لَا يُحِبُّ الْفَسَادَ

[müffen]

فَأَقِمْ وَجْهَكَ لِلدِّينِ حَنِيفًا ۚ فِطْرَتَ اللَّهِ الَّتِي فَطَرَ النَّاسَ عَلَيْهَا ۚ لَا تَبْدِيلَ لِخَلْقِ اللَّهِ ۚ ذَ*ٰلِكَ الدِّينُ الْقَيِّمُ وَلَـٰكِنَّ أَكْثَرَ النَّاسِ لَا يَعْلَمُونَ


So set thou thy face steadily and truly to the Faith: (establish) Allah.s handiwork according to the pattern on which He has made mankind: no change (let there be) in the work (wrought) by Allah. that is the standard Religion: but most among mankind understand not.

Surat Ar-Rum, Verse 30

Is that really what that is saying ?

I find 'there will never be an alternative to work wrought by Allah' being a completely valid interpretation of the text. Don't you think ?

[Sarz]

Hmm .. to me the translation of Yusuf Ali seems more closer to the meaning in terms of my understanding in the arabic (plus preconceived notions)

Other translations also seem to ring true with it (check here, just change the work drop-down box for other translations)

But what you said also makes sense! Where even though humans can alternate the DNA pattern of organism, it will never be perfect. But is this a warning, or a kind of message saying that you can genetically modify organism only to a certain extent ... Also, perhaps it is telling us that do not substitute unnatural for the natural.

[müffen]

I think that's exactly what that is saying. It's a warning against creating things that destroys the balance in Humans we have. Having super humans would be an example of that.

But I don't think it's warning against exploring genetic modification. Just don't become over excited and create people that you can't expect.

I still haven't vetted the matter fully in my head. I will be back when I have.

[Sarz]

Will be waiting for your post =)